Chad Johnson's Gray 6hp Model L
& 2 1/2 hp Termaat and Monahan
Chad Johnson's GRAY 6 h.p. Model L
Chad Says ~
& 2 1/2 h.p. Termaat and Monahan
(Regarding the GRAY / Termaat & Monahan connection)
I too am trying to figure out this connection, and the more I learn
the more confused I get. I do know that T&M had a casting facility on site
and built their own engines. I don't know if Gray did (their own casting) but it would seem so.
I included a page from a Gray catalog with reference letters from 1912 and
Jan. 1913 (1913 catalog?, courtesy of the Baraboo steam and gas engine club),
and in the bottom right it says all Gray engines have
the name cast into the hopper. This same catalog also says Gray sold engines to the
US government starting 3 years ago. I also included a photo of my 6 h.p. engine that I
bought thinking it was a T&M, but now I'm not so sure as it's a dead ringer for the
"Big 6" in the catalog but with out the "Gray" cast in the hopper.
These engines have a ported exhaust which I have been told T&M never made.
I also included a photo of my 2 1/2 hp T&M and I know what this one is from tidbits
of old decal on the hopper and the serial # which seems to be a little different from Gray's
My engine has serial # 3.928.4 and from what I have learned the 3 means 2 1/2 hp
(1 for 1 hp, 2 for 1 1/2 hp, 3 for 2 1/2 hp, 4 for 4 hp etc.) and the 4 at the end stands
for 4 cycle.(T&M also sold 2 cycle marine and stationary engines very similar to the Grays)
I don't know if the Gray factory burned or not but according to Wendel's book (bottom right page 509)
T & M began building their headless or vertical valve engine in 1916, and it bears no resemblance to
any Gray I've ever seen.
March ~ NEW TOY ALERT ~ 2005
I picked up this 1 hp engine that I'm going to restore as a T&M and I thought you might want it for your registry.
It has serial # 1.42081 and it runs good, because it has had a lot of work done in the past. The cylinder is sleeved,
the bearings have been repoured, the piston turned, new valves and pivot pins all around.
Will make for an easy re-restoration for me because all it really needs is paint, muffler and crank guard.
GRAY 6. h.p. Model L
Termaat and Monahan 2 1/2 h.p.
From a 1913 GRAY catalog
Years are hard to determine, and my research has centered on T&M's but I do know T&M
introduced their 4 cycle engine line in 1911 or 1912 and when they were introduced they had
"web" bases for the first 2 years or so, then they changed to a solid base and dropped the 1 hp,
then by 1916 the design changed completely.
When I go to shows I list my engine as a 1915, but recent research has shown this might be
1 year too new. With the low serial # (in my opinion) they must not have sold many.
T&M concentrated on their 2 cycle engines with numerous patents to show their effort, is it possible T&M
bought rights from Gray to manufacture this engine line?
Four cycles where an aside to make money for T&M and not their main interest at that time.
I included two more catalog items. The first shows a T&M of 1915 which has the speed change screw which
was patented by Gray and a magneto. The the following is from a Gray catalog which refers to
"The National Association of Gas Engine Manufacturers" convention in Detroit on June 20th to 23rd, 1911
and this catalog does not include a 2 1/2 hp, only 1 1/2, 4, and 6.
In this catalog the 1 1/2 hp has the oiler behind the hopper and on top for the other two.
all engines in this catalog have a solid base and no speed adjustment screw.
The Gray catalog pages I sent show the speed adjustment screw and oilers on top of the hopper for 1 3/4,
6, 9, and 12 h.p., with the oiler on top for the 2 1/2 and 4 h.p.
My T&M catalog (same as the one on your site) shows oilers on top up to 2 1/2 h.p., and behind for the larger sizes.
I also have a price list for T&M web base engines and these all have the oiler behind the hopper, although the
4 hp parts breakdown is missing.
Just to show how confusing all this is, I also have a Davis-Hansen (also of Oshkosh) catalog (showing engines
with web bases almost certainly built by T&M) the engines are identical except the 6 hp has a hot head where all
Gray and T&M engines have a wet head at this size.
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